The Iowa Department of Natural Resources is reporting that a deer hunter shot and killed a male mountain lion near Marengo, Iowa. Raymond Goebel of Cedar Rapids was hunting with a group just outside of Marengo when he spotted a Mountain Lion up in a tree. Goebel shot and killed the cat, which weighed in around 125 pounds.
According to the Iowa DNR, this is the first confirmed sighting of a mountain lion in Iowa in over five years.
While I am not a hunter, I do appreciate the activity of hunting deer (I have eaten venison as recently as last month). However the indiscriminate shooting of this mountain lion, a beautiful and rare creature, which was not killed for meat, is highly disappointing.
There are an estimated 30,000 mountain lions in the Western U.S. One mountain lion subspecies, the Florida panther, is critically endangered with a population of less than 100 individuals. Mountain lions have no protection in Iowa and it is not against the law to kill one; although the Iowa DNR does not encourage hunters to kill a lion they come across.
I spoke with someone at the Iowa Department of Natural Resources who was also disappointed over the killing of this mountain lion. He stated that politics in Iowa have prevented the passing of any legislation to give mountain lions protection, specifically because of resistance from the agriculture community that does not want to lose the ability to protect livestock. This representative at the DNR suggested that a proper compromise would be to give creatures like the mountain lion “fur bearer” status, which would allow livestock owners to deal with problem predators, while also preventing hunting or indiscriminate killing of these animals (as in the case of this recent shooting).
What are your thoughts on the shooting? Would you support legislation to protect mountain lions from hunting?
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I would absolutely support such legislation. It took the hunter 40 minutes to decide whether or not to shoot it (finding out if it was legal, getting the land owners permission, just sitting there watching). The cat was treed the entire time. Disgusting & not sporting in any sense of the word. Turns out the land owner (according to the DM Register article) knew about the cat, as it had been 'spooking' his horse for 4 years. There is NO evidence the cat had done any damage to any livestock anywhere. If anything it probably helped the farmers in the area by hunting deer.
Oh, this is so sad, and all the more so, Jason, when I read your comments. I'm all for ethical hunting (I read a wonderful interview on the topic recently in The Sun Magazine http://www.thesunmagazine.org/issues/408/the_good... but this kill was nowhere near ethical.
Iowa has an enormous problem with deer overpopulation. We need all the natural predators we can get. I'd certainly support legislation for the protection of mountain lions in Iowa. If anything, we should be introducing more big cats to the area to help restore the natural balance of the fauna in this region.
rumour has it mountain lions were introduced into Iowa to help kill some of the deer. I'm not sure if this is true or not but its something I'd heard hunters complain about even before this shooting. Hunters don't like it because they feel they can kill deer just as well as a mountain lion. They see the mountain lions as competition. It seems this hunter was just eliminating his competition.
Corey – Mountain lions were not introduced to iowa. They have the largest range of any other cat. Before they were killed off from excessive hunting (by North American colonization), they ranged from all of North America down to South American Andes. The deer population is plenty big to satisfy deer hunters here in Iowa.
This incident can easily be described as a 21st century deer hunter acting like he lives in some time in the distant past.
I’m actually shocked to learn that it’s legal to shoot a mountain lion.
You beat me to it Lisa: it's true, the DNR rep I talked to said the same thing. He even said the hunters were not "thinking in the 21st century."
Sad. I thought Iowa lacked any natural predators. I wonder how many mountain lions live here?
As a farmer the fewer predators and deer the better.
yes, protect the mountain lion by all means. and farmers in Iowa are always bitching about somthing doesn't matter what.
What would be the rationale for making it illegal to kill a mountain lion? Is there any logical reason to prohibit it?
Raymond Goebel of Cedar Rapids what were you thinking? I say shame on you.
Take a look at the Google results for the shooter: <a href="http://www.google.com/search?q=Raymond+Goebel">Raymond Goebel
No hunters in my group would have shot that lion. Good hunters show respect for the land and animals and teach that to their kids. The most disapointing thing is that the privelege of seeing a lion in the wild was wasted on this guy.
It's all relative, a matter of perspective. In India cows are not eaten, but in China the domestic house cat is farmed for its meat.
I think the attitude the hunters display is upsetting. They're behaving as though they just won a football game, instead of realizing the gravity of their actions. They apparently feel no empathy for the animal. However, these are men who are used to killing and eating animals. Most of us are insulated from the realities of farming or hunting animals, and many of us would be unwilling to kill a cow or pig.
http://gazetteonline.com/breaking-news/2009/12/15...
I know the land owner and remember when the horse was attacked. There are no longer horses there because of this very reason. However the issue is this lion was getting closer to the trailer where the owners grand kids stay. These cats will attack smaller children and a three year old out playing is easy prey for it. People need to know that once these creatures no longer fear man then we have a problem as they will find our pets and children easy prey to feast upon.
The story is also wrong in the fact this Mountain Lion is a male. It was a female. If you would like I can take a picture of the genitalia to prove it.
The lion was shot when it was 200 yards away from the trailer.
Wyoming man shoots Mountain Lion that was eating his Llamas: http://gazetteonline.com/blogs/news-hawk/2009/12/...
If I see one, I am shooting it so that it doesn't have a chance to eat me. There is a mountain lion where I deer hunt. I have seen it once but it was 500 yards away so I couldn't shoot it.
As a farmer don't you want the predators so they can eat the deer?
I guess.. but when they get into livestock then they need to go.
you have no idea. leave your sole income to the mercy of mother nature.. im sure you'll bitch a little.
I couldn't imagine how hard that would be. Being an animal lover, I find it hard to support what those hunters did, it just seemed cruel and unusual. But if I owned livestock, which were what helped to feed my family, and a mountain lion killed some, I can imagine feeling differently.
I commend both of you for discussing this thorny issue on this site!
Well wait a minute, what's the logic for it being legal to indiscriminately kill a mountain lion?
I mean, we're living in the 21st century, with the knowledge of what we did to the Buffalo (a campaign to drive them to extinction in an attempt to drive the Indians to extinction), the Grizzly, the Bald Eagle and countless other species. The Florida Panther, a type of Mountain Lion, is on the endangered species list from hunting and habitat loss. Do you see logic in making it illegal to kill a Bald Eagle? Do you see the difference between the managed hunting of an overpopulated species (deer) and killing this mountain lion?
Erik the answer to your question is easy – to protect a rare species. I spoke with two representatives with the Iowa DNR, and both told me that these tales of farmers losing livestock to mountain lions are simply untrue. A mountain lion has not been seen in Iowa for over 5 years! There have been reports, but nothing confirmed – usually people mis-identifying lions for bobcats or other predators.
Furthermore, there are solutions to dealing with predators that become a problem for farmers. Many states where this is an issue have laws that allow for hunting of problem predators. Let's be clear, these deer hunters did not shoot a mountain lion because it was a threat to livestock. It's no coincidence that the lion was sitting in an area where deer hunters where sitting – they both were after the same thing, deer.
I agree with you there.
I think "What's the logic for it being legal?" is the wrong question. I would argue that the burden of proof should be on those seeking to make something illegal; unless a compelling reason to ban an action can be demonstrated, that action should be legal by default.
I've been trying to figure out if the mountain lion is considered an endangered species in Iowa. If it is, then I'd say that presents a compelling reason for restrictions. If it is not, then why should a mountain lion be any different from, say, a deer, a raccoon or a wild boar?
I suspect you are arguing for the sake of arguing at this point . . .
So before I bite, let me know your stand:
Questions:
1) Erik, would you shoot a mountain lion out of a tree?
2) Erik, would you shoot a bald eagle out of a tree (assume it is legal)?
My answer to both is "no".
They correct the sex identification earlier this week (see the update on their site).
Wouldn't the DNR come and remove the animal for you? That's the impression I got.
Is the lion in your possession? What's going to be done with it?
Me, personally? No. But then, I've never shot a deer either, and probably never will. The fact that I personally wouldn't do something isn't enough to make me want to forbid anyone else from doing it.
"The fact that I personally wouldn't do something isn't enough to make me want to forbid anyone else from doing it. "
That's logic I can agree with. It's the same being applied to say the same sex marriage debate – one group of people telling another group of people they can't do something.
In the case of the mountain lion I feel like that mountain lions should be protected, just as it is protected in a majority of the nations of South and North America where it ranges. Only California (in the US) has prohibitions on killing all mountain lions without a permit (given to address problem predators).
I see it as entirely different than deer, just as I see shooting a Bald Eagle as entirely different than shooting a deer. I guess where we will have to agree to disagree is that I, like the people I spoke to at the Iowa Department of Natural Resources, believe that hunting should be managed. And as part of that management mountain lions should not be killed indiscriminately because they are a rare animal, are not hunted for food, and some sub-species are near extinction (like the Florida Panther which is on the endangered species list).
anyone who beleives mountain lions were introduced into the state to help manage deer should seek professional help and have their brain examined.